I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough. ~Christopher Hitchens
Who else is watching this on November 7th, 2024 and REALLY resonated with the last line?
Despite the lofty rhetoric, Libertarianism is a stalking horse for plutocracy. When democratic institutions are weakened, the power vacuum is filled by money. Advantage begets advantage and the disadvantaged become more powerless and poorer as income inequality increases.
"For someone like me, who lives his life like an optimist, the world is making it kind of goddamn hard right now." PREACH 🙏🙏
I have always misinterpreted Penn's definition of libertarianism, until now. I would like to thank him for clarifying. I wish more of us could be as optimistic, and that we could live up to his ideal of what it would be like to live in that kind of world. Yes. We should take care of one another, and we shouldn't have to be forced to do so.
I was a member of the Libertarian party for about 8 years prior to the pandemic. At that time, I noticed many people who identified as Libertarians refused to comply with the quarantine, mask, and ultimately vaccine mandates because they felt it was their personal right to not comply. They basically held the view that their wants and needs are the only thing that matters. Little did they consider the risk their choices were putting on others around them. Not complying with health and safety measures put others in danger, and these so-called Libertarians didn't seem to care. At that point, and because I agree 100% with Penn's perspective about caring for others and understanding how our individual choices can impact others, I left the Libertarian party to become an Independent.
This is it in a nutshell. The balance of your freedom verses doing what's right so as not to harm others. No seatbelt verses drunk driving. Not wearing a mask verses not wanting to spread a dangerous, new virus to those around you. Where is the consideration for others? Why are we so selfish? In places like Japan, they have no problem wearing masks if they don't feel well, because they respect other people. America had one of the highest death rates of covid in the world... is that what makes us great?
I was a libertarian as well, and then we had a pandemic, and half of our country refused to just wear a mask to protect their neighbors because "Fweedumb." We had an experiment that proved the libertarian claim that we don't need the government for people to do the right thing is objectively wrong
The fact is, in an emergency situation, a seat belt does help you keep the vehicle under control. Wear it.
Just in case anyone forgot. When Penn and Teller had their show Bullshit, they did an episode on vaccines where they debunked a lot of what Jenny McCarthy said. So, never associate pen with the antivax movement
I miss those days when libertarian was a synonym for leftist anarchist. Emma Goldman called herself a libertarian and she recognized that the power of economic elites in a "free market" was just as dangerous as the power of government, and that the two were closely linked. Noam Chomsky and others have called themselves libertarian socialists.
His way to describe libertarianism seems to best fit the description for healthy anarchism
Penn Jillette = Legend He was one of the main people to get me interested in Libertarianism. Now he has pretty much summed up all of my issues with a lot of so-called Libertarians.....
"Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice, without constraint." - Alexander Hamilton
The anti-drunk driver stance he took is key to debunking libertarian arguments. Essentially, if individuals are not responsible enough (or intellectually capable enough) to avoid behavior that jeopardizes the other people with whom they share this planet, the other people have three elementary responses: 1) People can unite to compel others to behave responsibly (government action) or, 2) respond individually (vigilantism), or, 3) do nothing and get massacred by all the idiots that are "free" to do whatever they want without any intervention. Vigilante behavior quickly deteriorates into gang warfare, tribalism, or similar settings of violence and retribution, and most folks refuse to go there for that reason. And, since most people refuse to idly let themselves and their families be exploited or massacred without opposition, the default option throughout most of human history has been the first option: government response. Of course, the nuances and complexity of government issues and functions is as limitless as human imagination and emotion, but that is what we ought to all be working towards bettering. Everything else is navel gazing.
Selfishness is one of the core tenants of libertarianism according to Rand.
I am so glad Penn came around. The main logic of libertarianism seemed to me to be that 90% of people are good and will do the right thing and that the use of force to make them do it was wrong. I think 90% is extremely optimistic especially after the '24 election, but even if true, laws, enforcement and mandates are still needed for the other 10% . Let alone the 1% of seriously messed up sociopaths.
I've never heard American libertarianism described as being about responsibility for others. Typically it's seen as focused on minimal government intervention in markets and personal lives; personal responsibility is crucial. You can feel responsible towards others if you like, that's your choice and your freedom, but by no means are you expected to. This makes me think he's actually more of an anarchist. Not in the cliche sense of anarchy being no government or rules, but it is about minimal government intervention (etc.) because you are expected to feel responsibility towards others and not need a government to compel this.
I thought about libertarianism until I saw Ron Paul kissing up to Donald Trump. I will remain independent thank you.
@DodderingOldMan