Evolution in Software: What Has Changed Since GOOS? • Nat Pryce & Duncan McGregor • GOTO 2025

This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. #GOTOcon #GOTOunscripted
gotopia.tech/

Read the full transcription of this interview here:
gotopia.tech/articles/364

Nat Pryce - Co-Author of “Growing Object­-Oriented Software Guided by Tests” & “Java to Kotlin” ‪@NatPryce‬
Duncan McGregor - Co-Author of "Java to Kotlin" & Independent Consultant ‪@PairingWithDuncan‬

RESOURCES
Nat
mastodon.social/@natpryce
github.com/npryce
x.com/natpryce
www.linkedin.com/in/natpryce
www.natpryce.com/

Duncan
twitter.com/duncanmcg
www.linkedin.com/in/duncan-mcgregor-a3038b6
github.com/dmcg
www.oneeyedmen.com/
java-to-kotlin.dev/

Links
www.meetup.com/extreme-tuesday-club-xtc
guava.dev/releases/21.0/api/docs/com/google/common…
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DESCRIPTION
This conversation between Duncan McGregor and Nat Pryce explores the legacy of Nat's co-authored book "Growing Object-Oriented Software, Guided by Tests" (GOOS) and how software development practices have evolved in the past 15 years.

They discuss the origins of test-driven development (TDD) within London's Extreme Tuesday Club, the shift from object-oriented to functional programming paradigms, and how changing technology has influenced development approaches.

Key topics include outside-in vs bottom-up testing strategies, mock objects, the rise of microservices, and whether modern development practices have actually improved productivity.
The conversation provides valuable historical context for understanding current software development trends while questioning whether some modern practices represent true progress.

TIMECODES
00:00 Intro
01:14 Growing Object-Oriented Software (GOOS)
04:25 The Extreme Tuesday Club & XP
07:32 Developer-led agile vs Management-led agile
13:42 Outside-in TDD vs Bottom-up TDD
17:32 Mock objects & testing techniques
23:38 Changes in SW development in the last 15 years
41:31 Outro

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Duncan McGregor & Nat Pryce • Java to Kotlin • amzn.to/4apSjLu
Steve Freeman & Nat Pryce • Growing Object-Oriented Software (GOOS) • amzn.to/41Fp7wM
Uberto Barbini • From Objects to Functions • amzn.to/4cMDOmH
Saleem Siddiqui • Learning Test-Driven Development • amzn.to/35OMb3n
Roy Osherove • The Art of Unit Testing • bit.ly/3obiKNB
Trisha Gee & Helen Scott • Getting to Know IntelliJ IDEA • amzn.to/3ZBgnGc
Vaughn Vernon & Tomasz Jaskula • Strategic Monoliths & Microservices • amzn.to/3AcUscj

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